| This Month |
The AFC President is a self-centered asshole. |
| Current Movie |
For the week of March 4th:
Black Snake Moan
 |
| Upcoming Films |
For March:
Mar.4:Black Snake Moan
Mar.11:8 Femmes
Mar.18:The Commitments
Mar.25:Kundun
|
| Previous Post |
|
| Archives |
|
|
| Monday, November 20, 2006 |
| "The New World" Discussion Questions |
I hope everyone has been able to watch the movie. If not, you can still view it anytime and comment/post at will. Next week we will move on to The Ice Storm. You can always come back and add to the discussion though.
Here are some questions to get things started. It's a bit final examish, so feel free to say fuck it and talk about whatever you want:
1) Although it has been romanticized, the conquest of "the new world" by European settlers led to a virtual genocide of its indigenous peoples. Public awareness of the plights, both past and present, of Native Americans has increased in recent years as political correctness and revisionism have gained popularity. Malick's film was released in 2005, and it may be tempting for the viewer to watch it within a framework of political or historical criticism. It may in fact be inevitable. Having seen the film, in what ways does it conform to prevailing attitudes about the settling of America? Are there any elements or characters in the movie that contradict those attitudes? Do you think the filmmakers intended to make a political film, a historical film, or something else?
2) After he is taken captive by the naturals, John Smith spends a significant amount of time learning about their way of life before returning to camp. Cinematically, how does Malick draw a contrast between the Indian city and the camp of the settlers? What sorts of imagery does he use and what connotations do they have in these scenes? Speaking more generally, what are some of the substantial differences between the two societies?
3) Collin Farrell: hot or not? Discuss.
4) The movie's opening and closing sequences are anchored to the image of moving water. Water, in the form of the river and otherwise, is so prevelant throughout the film that it almost functions like another character. What meaning (figuratively or literally) does it have to the various characters in the story, and to the story itself? What about trees? And grass?
5) Describe the character of the Indian princess. How does she change during the course of the movie? How does she respond to her arrival in England? What is her attitude toward John Smith? Toward John Rolfe? Her final line in the movie is "Mother, now I know where you live." What the shit does that mean?
6) How does the movie portray civilization? One of the great tensions in the film is between Order and Nature. Or maybe I made that up, but there's definitely a recurring theme of law, society, structure, etc. An example is when the two Englishmen are arguing about which day of the week it is, but later the princess doesn't even know what a day is or why there are colors on the map of the world. Captain Newport speaks to the settlers about the "Eden" that has been given to them in this new land. How are the actions of the settlers juxtaposed with Newport's words?
7) Does the movie succeed as a love story? What timeless elements, if any, are present in the "romantic" lives of the princess, John Smith, and John Rolfe. Who loves who? Are there different types of love presented? If so, are any types more real or valuable than others?
8) "The New World" has a score of 60% on rottentomatoes.com. If you read the reviews, most critics seem to either love it or think of it as a giant failure. In my early discussions with some of our club members, that trend seems to have carried over. What about the movie makes it so devisive? |
posted by Jeff @ 11/20/2006 01:49:00 PM  |
|
| 16 Comments: |
-
Holy shit this IS like a final exam. What was that about us not being movie snobs?
Anyway, I'm going to say fuck it for now and just talk.
You know, the more that I think about it, if I were she, I wouldn't be saying "Mother, now I know where you live." I would be saying something more to the tune of, "Mother... wait, there is no mother and I have been taken away from my people and my brother was killed, and why did I agree to this?" But that's just me.
Yes, this is a love story. It snuck up on me, though, as I was initially swept away by the visual aspect of the movie... the colors, the natural feel of it all... the inconceivable notion of the first encounter between the settlers and the natives was brought to life for me. I was refreshed by the nature, the water, the virgin landscape-esque feel after the first few scenes. Actually, I began feeling earthy from the minute I saw the DVD menu screen. I'm not gonna lie.
Although I'm a little bitter about our Princess's willingness to assimilate, I'm going out on a limb here to say that aside from that, I'm satisfied to know that I've seen something that could be a somewhat accurate depiction of life as a colonist and life as a native who has encountered this other being for the first time. We know that neither camp can really see this far into the future to know how everything eventually ends up... It makes me sad.
Colin Farrell: hot. Christian Bale: hotter.
This film is beautifully constructed- from the cinematic delivery to the location to the limited dialogue. The music is PERFECT and sets the action into a tailored feel that tantalizes your thinkin’ parts.
What?
-
Portraying American Indians in white society is so complicated I don't even know where to begin. It reminds me of Peter Pan, and how obviously all the Indians in Peter Pan stories and plays and movies were so insanely offensive for so long. Like in the Disney animated version where there's a whole song about "what makes the red man red." And then there was that most recent live action version, and those people made a big deal out of hiring Real Natives! to play the Indians. And instead of just using Indian War Paint and Clothes! like I've seen at Party Starts Here, they did some research and used 'authentic' War Paint and Clothes. But which is more offensive to me? I'm not sure. When it's some Asian actor smoking the peace pipe it seems so absurd that it's almost not really something to consider. But then when you got a bunch of white people really trying to make some historically accurate people based on what, some historical documents by white people, but you can't separate that from decades of characterizations. NB: I played an Indian in a play of Peter Pan back in the day and we all wore these long black wigs in braids, and the outfits involved pink and yellow fabric and a lot of green fringe.
Collin Farrell is wicked fucking hot in this. Like insanely hot. I bet
the real guy was fugly.
I have a big problem with all that mother I know where you are shit,
because I loathe the idea of anyone but particularly a woman thinking
that the most important thing she gave to the world was her child.
Bogus. What she had a kid and found herself. BUT THEN there are layers
to that given the political and historical implications of 'Rebecca's' relationships. I don't feel like talking about this right now.
The thing that really struck me about the movie was how it made me
feel sort of claustrophobic. Even with all the sweeping natural beauty
I felt really closed in through the whole movie. I think it had to do
with the fact that we know how things were going down and turned out in the end, with, you know, the slaughter of entire civilizations. It was also strange because today you can get to the other side of the
world faster then you can get to a place where you're more then two
miles from a man made object. In the movie, you had all this wilderness, but you were stuck where you were really. I think it really had an affect on me because it has something to do with civilization and loneliness. I haven't figured it out yet.
I definitely have a problem with the princess assimilating like it was
her job. Couldn't she have run away to a different native civilization
that was more like her own then a bunch of fucking whities? Isn't it
interesting that she was allowed to live in Jamestown and wear her own
clothes until the first woman showed up to put her in some hideous course dress? Also, I can't decide if when John Farrell saw her in the European clothes and if he was less attracted to her then do I hate him for that or not? Because maybe he loves her for who she is, a beautiful, wise, person not obligated and restrained by the same things he is (though clearly she has her own social shit) OR maybe he just wants a sexy little natural to have sex with all over the new world. So maybe her assimilation is symbolic of the forthcoming disaster and Colin knew that, or maybe he only likes chicks in leather.
How did she go from learning the word for wind to being completely
fluent in English?
Overall, I think the film was as disturbing as it was beautiful, which is probably true of everything in life. One of the most powerful
moments for me was when the native guy who was went to England with
some sticks to mark was in that garden with all the topiaries and
whatnot. Seeing him in his garb standing against those jacked up trees was really brilliantly depressing.
-
Thanks for your comments. You both said a lot of things I want to respond to, and I hope others will too. I have a lot of notes I jotted down while watching the movie and will eventually put my thoughts into something cohesive like you guys have done. In the meantime, I'd kind of like to go back to that first question I put up there. Obiviously no one is going to be able to talk about or think about this film in a political and historical vacuum. However, in addition to talking about that stuff (and please do), I think limiting the discussion to those themes is missing a major element of the film...one that is more abstract, human, or maybe even metaphysical in nature. To me, there's something that transcends even the love story.
This movie seems to be about, if I had to put a point on it, discovery. And I'm still wondering what leads the princess to finally discover this divine presence she calls Mother. Did everyone think it was because she had a child? I think I disagree with that. I'm sorry Katy if I misunderstood what you were saying. To me, it's more about this journey she takes away from everything she knows...and only when she does that does she truly see a reflection of who she is/was. And then, of course, all she wants to do is go back home. The stuff with her child in the garden just struck me as being an allusion to her playing with her brother in the grass...so the message becomes that although the world changes and people die and move on, the fundamental unifying shit like love, nature, and God stay the same...they just take on different forms. She has discovered that "Mother" lives inside of herself, and inside of everything. How does that sound?
On a different note, I found myself actually flip-flopping between Katie's awe of the natural beauty depicted and Katy's more claustrophobic response to most of the movie. I would go from a feeling of tranquility to becoming very very tense. You both said this but I agree so I'm going to say it again, a lot of that tension comes from our own knowledge of what lies ahead. Although he highlights it occassionally, for the most part Malick is smart enough to let history provide a natural conflict to scenes that otherwise have none. He's also smart enough, I think, to allow the story a life of its own outside of history's domain.
-
Katy-
That scene where the Princess is being dressed in the European dress for the first time was pretty painful, I agree. I felt something innocent die inside of me.
-
alright i was just thinking about this assimilation stuff in my car as i went to deposit my insurance refund. when i saw the movie the first time around, that was the part that frustrated me the most. i wanted her put up at least a little bit of a fight before joining the ranks of the euros.
but now i realize that what makes her character so special is that she doesn't judge their culture any more than john smith judges hers. maybe she's even a little excited by it. besides, her own people traded her over for a popcorn kettle...why wouldn't she assimilate? and to be honored by the king and queen of another nation? i just think it's our tendancy as white liberals with a great deal of guilt on our shoulders to revolt against any depiction that isn't indians=good, whites=bad.
-
maybe this wasn't a good first movie after all. what's weird, though, is that it's so full of things to think/talk about, but it's hard to say anything definitive about it. one of the most common phrases used to describe the movie is "tone poem," which is pretentious but also spot on, i think. maybe that makes it difficult to discuss. or maybe it just makes it boring to disuss.
i took a ton of notes on this movie and would like to say more about it, but i don't think i will because i mainly just have a lot of questions, which i've already posted.
i do like the movie a lot. i think it is beautiful and sad and hopeful and hopeless and brilliant and flawed all at the same time. however, i do have to say that, as with all of mailck's films, i found it a little exhausting. it's so big, in terms of its ideas and implications. for some reason, while i think he's a great artist, there always seems to be missing some sort of cohesiveness (is that a word?) to malick's works. like he tries to do too much or something. but that's also why i like it, so i'm back to square one.
i was talking about this movie at thanksgiving lunch and my 16 year old niece goes "is that the new pocahontas movie?" when i said yes, she said "i didn't like it. it was just...weird."
as much as i like the new world, she makes a good point.
-
OK, I finally watched it. Your neice is right, Jeff. I think "weird" is a good word. I don't think I really understand what the movie was going for. It's funny that you put up the question about the water because that's something I noticed too. There are the shots of the river, but they also talk about the "river" inside them and guiding them as they fall in love. What I don't understand is why the movie goes in a different direction in the second half. They follow their rivers for so long and then when they can't anymore we watch them come to terms with it for another hour. Do we really need all that stuff with Christian Bale? Anyone know how accurate this movie is? Mostly I just came away confused. It's like he was making three or four different movies.
-
i watched this movie a long time ago, and while i remember having a very interesting discussion with jeff about it at the time, abundance of alcohol consumption in australia has damaged most of my memory.
about the only thing i can comment on is colin farrell: hot or not. i'd like to say hell yes, hot. and ditto to christian bale.
also, if i remember correctly, they either a) don't show john and pocohantas kissing (on the lips) ever or b) it's just once and it's pretty significant. i think we determined that it was probably due to girl being 14 and colin being 30+, but thought it also played well thematically and gave props to malick for creatively stretching a limitation into an asset.
-
[u][b]Xrumer[/b][/u]
[b]Xrumer SEO Professionals
As Xrumer experts, we possess been using [url=http://www.xrumer-seo.com]Xrumer[/url] fitted a large time for the time being and remember how to harness the titanic power of Xrumer and adapt it into a Banknotes machine.
We also yield the cheapest prices on the market. Numberless competitors will charge 2x or temperate 3x and a a pile of the term 5x what we responsibility you. But we maintain in providing great help at a low affordable rate. The whole incidental of purchasing Xrumer blasts is because it is a cheaper alternative to buying Xrumer. So we aim to support that mental activity in mind and provide you with the cheapest standing possible.
Not just do we have the best prices but our turnaround heyday after your Xrumer posting is super fast. We intention take your posting done in the forefront you know it.
We also cater you with a full log of loaded posts on contrasting forums. So that you can get the idea over the extent of yourself the power of Xrumer and how we be struck by harnessed it to gain your site.[/b]
[b]Search Engine Optimization
Using Xrumer you can trust to realize thousands upon thousands of backlinks over the extent of your site. Many of the forums that your Install you force be posted on oblige acute PageRank. Having your link on these sites can deep down help strengthen up some top grade endorse links and genuinely as well your Alexa Rating and Google PageRank rating utterly the roof.
This is making your instal more and more popular. And with this better in popularity as familiarly as PageRank you can think to see your site absolutely filthy gamy in those Search Motor Results.
Traffic
The amount of conveyance that can be obtained nearby harnessing the power of Xrumer is enormous. You are publishing your plat to tens of thousands of forums. With our higher packages you may regular be publishing your locality to HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of forums. Create 1 brief on a stylish forum last will and testament inveterately cotton on to a leave 1000 or so views, with say 100 of those people visiting your site. These days devise tens of thousands of posts on celebrated forums all getting 1000 views each. Your traffic ordain withdraw because of the roof.
These are all targeted visitors that are interested or bizarre nearly your site. Assume how assorted sales or leads you can fulfil with this considerable number of targeted visitors. You are in fact stumbling upon a goldmine bright to be picked and profited from.
Retain, Above is Money.
[/b]
TRAVERSE B RECOVER YOUR TWOPENNY ERUPTION TODAY:
http://www.xrumer-seo.com
-
Take apart Our Inoperative Prices at www.Pharmashack.com, The ‚lite [b][url=http://www.pharmashack.com]Online Slightly [/url][/b] To [url=http://www.pharmashack.com]Buy Viagra[/url] Online ! You Can also Espy Life-and-death Deals When You [url=http://www.pharmashack.com/en/item/cialis.html]Buy Cialis[/url] and When You You [url=http://www.pharmashack.com/en/item/levitra.html]Buy Levitra[/url] Online. We Also Companions a Signal Generic [url=http://www.pharmashack.com/en/item/phentermine.html]Phentermine[/url] As a aid to Your Victuals ! We Hawk Swap signpost [url=http://www.pharmashack.com/en/item/viagra.html]Viagra[/url] and Also [url=http://www.pharmashack.com/en/item/generic_viagra.html]Generic Viagra[/url] !
-
Alter the entity with two backs casinos? digging this untrained [url=http://www.realcazinoz.com]casino[/url] boss and focus on up online casino games like slots, blackjack, roulette, baccarat and more at www.realcazinoz.com .
you can also examine our unique [url=http://freecasinogames2010.webs.com]casino[/url] guide at http://freecasinogames2010.webs.com and widen the gap corporeal affluence !
another unsurpassed [url=http://www.ttittancasino.com]casino spiele[/url] set of events is www.ttittancasino.com , because german gamblers, come to unrestrained online casino bonus.
-
Dear Alicia,
For long time I use this freeware: [url=http://www.freeflvtomp3converter.com]FLV to MP3 free converter[/url].
FLV to MP3 free converter is a free YouTube, MegaVideo, Sevenload and similar video sites to MP3 Converter and allows you to convert a video to MP3 file.
This software is fast, free, and requires no signup. All you need is a FLV Video file, and this software will extract the MP3, and give you an audio file.
So you are able to listen to your favorite YouTube tracks on every MP3 player.
You can download it for free at [url=http://www.freeflvtomp3converter.com]www.freeflvtomp3converter.com[/url].
I hope this help you.
-
hiya i am a newb here i like [URL=http://www.mydjspace.net]dj download[/URL] in my spare time. I hope to be able to contribute on this board and should stay around!
Thx's.
-
It is remarkable, it is rather valuable piece
-
Thanks mate... just dropped by. Will look for BIKE STN when we get to Seattle. Still in Buenos Airies.
-
Please one more post about that.I wonder how you got so good. This is really a fascinating blog, lots of stuff that I can get into. One thing I just want to say is that your Blog is so perfect
|
| |
| << Home |
| |
|
|
|
| Quote Of The Week |
"If you're not going to be chained to a community, if you're not going to be tethered to a community, a place, a family, or perhaps even a church, then the best we can hope for is to be tethered and chained to each other.."
--Craig Brewer |
| About Us |
|
Founded in Athens, GA in late 2006, we are a group of movie lovers who participate in a weekly, online discussion regarding the merits, qualities, themes, histories, implications, connotations, denotations, and general appeal (or lack thereof) of a variety of selected films.
|
| Links |
|
|
Holy shit this IS like a final exam. What was that about us not being movie snobs?
Anyway, I'm going to say fuck it for now and just talk.
You know, the more that I think about it, if I were she, I wouldn't be saying "Mother, now I know where you live." I would be saying something more to the tune of, "Mother... wait, there is no mother and I have been taken away from my people and my brother was killed, and why did I agree to this?" But that's just me.
Yes, this is a love story. It snuck up on me, though, as I was initially swept away by the visual aspect of the movie... the colors, the natural feel of it all... the inconceivable notion of the first encounter between the settlers and the natives was brought to life for me. I was refreshed by the nature, the water, the virgin landscape-esque feel after the first few scenes. Actually, I began feeling earthy from the minute I saw the DVD menu screen. I'm not gonna lie.
Although I'm a little bitter about our Princess's willingness to assimilate, I'm going out on a limb here to say that aside from that, I'm satisfied to know that I've seen something that could be a somewhat accurate depiction of life as a colonist and life as a native who has encountered this other being for the first time. We know that neither camp can really see this far into the future to know how everything eventually ends up... It makes me sad.
Colin Farrell: hot. Christian Bale: hotter.
This film is beautifully constructed- from the cinematic delivery to the location to the limited dialogue. The music is PERFECT and sets the action into a tailored feel that tantalizes your thinkin’ parts.
What?